PDAL Notes 2022 - Revision history

Darkblueb: past history

2022-05-30T15:13:23Z

past history

Darkblueb: past

2022-05-30T15:12:16Z

past

Darkblueb: /* PDAL Misc Notes */

2022-05-18T02:53:12Z

PDAL Misc Notes

Darkblueb: /* PDAL Misc Notes */

2022-05-18T01:15:52Z

PDAL Misc Notes

Darkblueb: /* PDAL Misc Notes */

2022-05-18T01:13:13Z

PDAL Misc Notes

Darkblueb: /* PDAL Misc Notes */

2022-05-18T01:12:17Z

PDAL Misc Notes

Darkblueb: add clone wars link wrt to Martin

2022-05-17T15:31:37Z

add clone wars link wrt to Martin

Darkblueb: QGIS

2022-05-17T15:20:26Z

QGIS

Darkblueb at 22:51, 16 May 2022

2022-05-16T22:51:11Z

Darkblueb at 22:50, 16 May 2022

2022-05-16T22:50:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:13, 30 May 2022
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	<hr/>		<hr/>
−
−	~~Wiki Notes on PDAL - darkblueb [https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Osgeolive-jupyter#Python_Libraries_Strategy writes]:~~
−
−	""LiDAR "maybe?" : this is slightly painful since modern commercial GIS is flooded with this tech, delivered by advanced Western companies seeking something novel to sell. Changes to the LASzip licensing have enabled inclusion, but as of today, no Debian maintainer in place, and bas wants PDAL out at this time. -EMAIL- -EMAIL2-""
−
−	~~Online Chat meeting, partial notes:~~
−
−	~~darkblueb writes:~~
−	~~"Personalmente, no espero paquetes de Debian. Si creamos un script de instalación personalizado e incluimos etiquetas de versión de git y lo enviamos solo en OSGeoLive, está bien para mí.~~
−
−	~~"Personally, I don't expect Debian packages. If we create a custom install script and include git version tags and push it only on OSGeoLive, that's fine with me.~~
−
−
−	~~After the short IRC meeting went badly:~~
−
−	3:07:57 PM - darkblueb: robe2 - you are trusted by this org, you have successful clients and a book that sells a few copies, and at this point, you are a leader here. this disk serves this community.. that is my commitment
−	~~of course I have opinions, I have three decades of real work in software in California. My opinion~~
−	~~includes getting access to high tech, to people who are not insiders, and not necessarily in a uniform~~
−	~~thats what drives these PDAL etc talks.. GNU + open FAIR access.. it is my view~~
−	~~darkblueb: very few people show up to do the work here.. I like it and do it enthusiastically.. not everyone is glad for that, apparently.. so it goes~~
−	robe2: darkblueb: That's one of the clearest things you've said today. I have that opinion too. Just not as convinced as you how to get there. I have not much opinion on how to get there. Just that the shortest path is not a straight line

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 '''Postscript'''
+*past history*
 <hr/>

@@ Line 35: / Line 35: @@
 '''Goals of OSGeoLive'''
-The [https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeoLive OSGeoLive] GNU-linux project exists to showcase the ecosystem of OSGeo dot org incubated projects with documentation in ten+ human languages, serves as a reference code implementation of installation and inter-operability of these software projects using OGC and [https://www.go-fair.org/fair-principles/ FAIR] standards, and demonstrate using a curated showcase of examples to easily ''trial'' software.  Current and developing technology stacks, on the server, in the browser, on the desktop, are updated and run in a modern, networked linux stack. OSGeoLive has been recognized by Distro-watch and other professional catalogs of modern linux. [9]
+The [https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeoLive OSGeoLive] GNU-linux project exists to showcase the ecosystem of OSGeo dot org incubated projects with documentation in ten+ human languages, serves as a reference code implementation of installation and inter-operability of these software projects using OGC and [https://www.go-fair.org/fair-principles/ FAIR] standards, and demonstrate using a curated showcase of examples to easily ''trial'' software.  Current and developing technology stacks, on the server, in the browser, on the desktop, are updated and run in a modern, networked linux operating system. OSGeoLive has been recognized by Distro-watch and other professional catalogs of modern linux. [9]
 '''History''' -- past uses of PDAL on [https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeoLive_History OSGeoLive]:

@@ Line 75: / Line 75: @@
 '''How to Proceed'''
-There are several issues raised here, related to community access to OSS software libraries via OSGeo dot org; support for Point Cloud technology on OSGeoLive (''civilian science, without barrier to potential geo-political rivals of the US/West''); software developer community participation and reputation in engineering (F)OSS over time, perhaps more.
+There are several issues raised here, related to community access to OSS software libraries via [https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Binary_Distribution OSGeo] dot org; support for Point Cloud technology on OSGeoLive (''civilian science, without barrier to potential geo-political rivals of the US/West''); software developer community participation and reputation in engineering (F)OSS over time, perhaps more.
 Importantly, PDAL exists as a [https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/pdal stable package] now and can be used on OSGeoLive 15 for 2022 with or without resolving these questions.  Secondly, the last [https://qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.html QGIS LTS] release of October 2021 is almost certainly the target to ship for FOSS4G 2022 Florence, not the very recent, "point cloud enabled" [https://www.lutraconsulting.co.uk/blog/2022/04/05/pointcloud-in-qgis-update-2/ QGIS version], soon to be released, estimated June 2022.

@@ Line 35: / Line 35: @@
 '''Goals of OSGeoLive'''
-The OSGeoLive GNU-linux project exists to showcase the ecosystem of OSGeo dot org incubated projects with documentation in ten+ human languages, serves as a reference code implementation of installation and inter-operability of these software projects using OGC and [https://www.go-fair.org/fair-principles/ FAIR] standards, and demonstrate using a curated showcase of examples to easily ''trial'' software.  Current and developing technology stacks, on the server, in the browser, on the desktop, are updated and run in a modern, networked linux stack. OSGeoLive has been recognized by Distro-watch and other professional catalogs of modern linux. [9]
+The [https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeoLive OSGeoLive] GNU-linux project exists to showcase the ecosystem of OSGeo dot org incubated projects with documentation in ten+ human languages, serves as a reference code implementation of installation and inter-operability of these software projects using OGC and [https://www.go-fair.org/fair-principles/ FAIR] standards, and demonstrate using a curated showcase of examples to easily ''trial'' software.  Current and developing technology stacks, on the server, in the browser, on the desktop, are updated and run in a modern, networked linux stack. OSGeoLive has been recognized by Distro-watch and other professional catalogs of modern linux. [9]
 '''History''' -- past uses of PDAL on [https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeoLive_History OSGeoLive]:

@@ Line 37: / Line 37: @@
 The OSGeoLive GNU-linux project exists to showcase the ecosystem of OSGeo dot org incubated projects with documentation in ten+ human languages, serves as a reference code implementation of installation and inter-operability of these software projects using OGC and [https://www.go-fair.org/fair-principles/ FAIR] standards, and demonstrate using a curated showcase of examples to easily ''trial'' software.  Current and developing technology stacks, on the server, in the browser, on the desktop, are updated and run in a modern, networked linux stack. OSGeoLive has been recognized by Distro-watch and other professional catalogs of modern linux. [9]
-'''History''' -- past uses of PDAL on OSGeoLive:
+'''History''' -- past uses of PDAL on [https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeoLive_History OSGeoLive]:
 PDAL binary has existed on OSGeoLive linux for some years. In June 2018, a short install script was added to the OSGeoLive repo. [6]

@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
 '''Conflict''' within the broader community
-Some kind of interactions between Debian Developer [10] [https://contributors.debian.org/contributor/sebastic/ Sebastian Cowenburg] ('''sebastic''') and PDAL Developer Howard Butler ('''hobu''') have led to protest and action by sebastic. The net effect is that from May 2022 onward, new revisions of PDAL will not be built and included in the "upstream" Debian GIS system of packaging. There is a complex and long-standing relationship between Debian GIS/sebastic and OSGeoLive/UbuntuGIS/kalxas.  Essentially, both Debian and UbuntuGIS opportunistically feed on the work products of the other. There is a general context of more work than any one or small group of people can do, to formalize and ingest new OSS software into Debian packages. [11]
+Some kind of interactions between Debian Developer [10] [https://contributors.debian.org/contributor/sebastic/ Sebastian Cowenburg] ('''sebastic''') and PDAL Developer Howard Butler ('''hobu''') have led to protest and action by sebastic. Conflict over tech is not new [12]. The net effect is that from May 2022 onward, new revisions of PDAL will not be built and included in the "upstream" Debian GIS system of packaging. There is a complex and long-standing relationship between Debian GIS/sebastic and OSGeoLive/UbuntuGIS/kalxas.  Essentially, both Debian and UbuntuGIS opportunistically feed on the work products of the other. There is a general context of more work than any one or small group of people can do, to formalize and ingest new OSS software into Debian packages. [11]
 Debian packaging (<code>.deb</code>) is the standard for signed, authenticated software products installable into GNU-Debian-Ubuntu linux OS computers, and includes the most trusted sources of software available today for that ecosystem due to decades of products, cryptographic immutability and signed integrity of the package contents.
 [10]  [https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDeveloper#:~:text=Debian%20Developer%20(DD)%20is%20our,elect%20the%20Debian%20Project%20Leader. -DD-] &nbsp;
-[11]  [https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages -DEBIAN-]
+[11]  [https://www.debian.org/distrib/packages -DEBIAN-] &nbsp;
      EMAIL Inquiry April 2022

@@ Line 62: / Line 62: @@
      [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-gis/2022/02/msg00004.html
-The present author Brian M Hamlin, MAPLABS Berkeley, raised the issue to the Board of Directors of OSGeo dot org in April 2022, noting that some kind of clock is now ticking, marking the 'removal' of PDAL (and perhaps a small list of related software) from the Debian build pipeline. In fact, no packages will be 'removed' from Debian, it means that no new packages will be built and integrated, past that date, as things stand now. The details of this mechanism are complicated. Angelos Tzotsos has indicated that UbuntuGIS project has separate standing, and may or may not be in a similar situation.
+The present author Brian M Hamlin ('''darkblueb'''), MAPLABS Berkeley, raised the issue to the Board of Directors of OSGeo dot org in April 2022, noting that some kind of clock is now ticking, marking the 'removal' of PDAL (and perhaps a small list of related software) from the Debian build pipeline. In fact, no packages will be 'removed' from Debian, it means that no new packages will be built and integrated, past that date, as things stand now. The details of this mechanism are complicated. Angelos Tzotsos has indicated that UbuntuGIS project has separate standing, and may or may not be in a similar situation.
 OSGeo Board Meeting  wiki "Board Meeting 2022-04-25"

@@ Line 80: / Line 80: @@
 '''Postscript'''
-I, Brian M Hamlin, included without invitation OSGeo Board Member Vicky (cvvergara) Vergara of Mexico City, Mexico, in an English language email to Howard Butler seeking clarification on his point of view of the current situation. Vicky, Regina Obe (robe2) and I subsequently had an ill-fated, short meeting on IRC that did not go well. If I was improper in including Vicky without asking, or impatient in my followup on this complex and nuanced topic, I do apologize to Vicky, as she left the meeting upset with the proceedings. There are legal and community matters of weight in this discussion, and that pressure, along with language barrier and life circumstances for all of us, contributed to a sort of 'fail' in communication that day.
+I, Brian M Hamlin, included without invitation OSGeo Board Member Vicky (cvvergara) Vergara of Mexico City, Mexico, in an English language email to Howard Butler seeking clarification on his point of view of the current situation. Vicky, Regina Obe ('''robe2''') and I subsequently had an ill-fated, short meeting on IRC that did not go well. If I was improper in including Vicky without asking, or impatient in my followup on this complex and nuanced topic, I do apologize to Vicky, as she left the meeting upset with the proceedings. There are legal and community matters of weight in this discussion, and that pressure, along with language barrier and life circumstances for all of us, contributed to a sort of 'fail' in communication that day.
 Since then, I met in detail with Regina Obe, answered questions in dialog and sought to straighten things out going forward. Please refer to Regina for details on that. I look forward to constructive interaction in the future, and seek the best outcomes for the project, the current OSGeo Board and the OSGeoLive project itself. Thank you for the time to review this situation.